tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25137929.post1315178530891190812..comments2023-08-26T02:27:21.897-07:00Comments on Frisbee: A Book Journal: Catullus Censored: Not for TextingFrisbeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07394353185610393979noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25137929.post-42227322639039279352010-01-19T21:33:52.378-08:002010-01-19T21:33:52.378-08:00Dear Kathy,
I'm back from teaching too and Iz...Dear Kathy,<br /><br />I'm back from teaching too and Izzy is now asleep, but I will send her the URLs. I'll bet her teacher brings this up -- tactfully I imagine.<br /><br />EllenEllenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14979942382683140531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25137929.post-27015046776515222602009-11-26T07:59:43.263-08:002009-11-26T07:59:43.263-08:00Yes, I'm familiar with that translation (chez ...Yes, I'm familiar with that translation (chez Wikipedia), and, yes, I was being ironic when I translated the words with the euephemisms from my scholarly dictionary (which is, by the way, still the standard Latin dictionary used by scholars! Lewis & Short is so good otherwise that it's like an icon).<br /><br />I'll leave aside the question of sexual haassment case (which I haven't followed - I know only about the employer's mad use of Catullus out of context, which I agree was certainly self-destructive if not threatening: at the very least one would burst into tears upon receiving that text. The guy is a classicist so God only knows what was going through his head. <br /><br />The tone of the poem is lighter than the English translation might suggest. "Bugger" would be an inappropriate translation for Americans, and the Romans weren't, after all, British: you'd have to go with an equivalent (which is...well, I'm not sure). I'm not familiar with the word "face-f." . A word like "blow" would probably be more appropriate. (Sorry,, everybody, but I'm actually talking about the damned Latin!) <br /><br />But the tone of the poem depends on the knowledge of C's whole cycle of poems. Catullus, in addition to writing about the woman called Lesbia, had written some gay love poems to Juventius, and the reference to "milia multa basiorum" (v.12 of this poem) can have a double meaning: versions of the phrase appear in Poem 5 (addressed to Lesbia) and in Poem 48 (addressed to Juventius), but this reference here is probably to Catullus's gay Juventius poem, according to my text, and it makes sense. So Catullus' threats are not necessarily of rape here. He likes the double entendres.<br /><br />As Merrill, the editor of my CAtullus text, says: "[pedicabo, etc.] are here not to be understood in the literal sense, but only as conveying vague threats, in the gross language of the day..."<br /><br />So you see it's all about tone! Catullus wrote both heterosexual and homosexual tones, so his opening line is more a crude joke than a threat. There are the usual references to his poems as mollicula, voluptuous or soft, which certainly lessen the sense of threat! So it isn't really much of a threat. <br /><br /> Catullus also wrote some friendly poems to Aurelius and Furius. <br /><br />More than you ever want to know about C, and I'd have to reread all the Lesbia, Juventius, Furius, and Aurelius to convey it clearly.<br /><br />I'm defending Catullus, not whatever is going on in that dreadful case!Frisbeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394353185610393979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25137929.post-40577217435975897302009-11-26T01:48:49.392-08:002009-11-26T01:48:49.392-08:00The line means
"I will bugger you and face-f*...The line means<br />"I will bugger you and face-f**k you" -- in other words threatening anal and oral rape. Though Catallus might have meant it as burlesque, I can certainly understand why someone receiving such a text might feel a bit threatened!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com